HOW DO YOU THINK THE COUNTRY CAN ACHIEVE RECONCILIATION?

It starts from Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha. It does not matter how many reconciliation panels are appointed. It depends only on the PM. Prayut has given himself amnesty. As a red shirt leader, I do not ask for amnesty but I would ask him to give amnesty to all sides. Leave leaders to fight court cases.

I do not agree with a blanket amnesty. My group sees things differently over this issue.

I and Suthep (Thaugsuban) look at a blanket amnesty differently. Suthep sees it in terms of corruption cases. I look at it as murder cases. I believe both corruption and murder cases should not be given amnesty.

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE RED SHIRTS WILL CONTINUE IT STRUGGLE WITHOUT TAKING THAKSIN’S (SHINAWATRA) ISSUES INTO ACCOUNT?

The red shirts fight for democratic principles. We did not fight just for one person. Whatever the people get from our fight, Thaksin will receive as just that.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TELL THE RED SHIRTS NOT TO GET THAKSIN INVOLVED IN THEIR STRUGGLE FOR DEMOCRACY?

In fact, Thaksin opponents cannot let go of the issue. If you follow us closely, you know we do not agree with Thaksin in many issues. We do not agree with a blanket amnesty.

THE PHEU THAI PARTY IS STILL SEEN AS THE OTHER LEG OF THE RED SHIRTS. BUT NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES POLITICAL PARTIES UNDER THE THAKSIN CAMP WERE DISSOLVED, THEY RESURRECTED BECAUSE OF THAKSIN. IS THERE A NEED TO REFORM PHEU THAI TO LIBERATE IT FROM THAKSIN?

I talked about reforming the party and the UDD [United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship] after the coup was staged. I told the party that an election victory is not important because after that we lost we could not keep the power. The point now is no longer an election victory for us. We must reform so that we can achieve a sustainable democracy. We are not always right. We made mistakes. If we do not adjust and improve ourselves we will lose in the long term.

WILL THE PHEU THAI PARTY SURVIVE WITHOUT THAKSIN?

Actually Thaksin has not been on the scene for a long time. He is the history of Pheu Thai. Thailand cannot avoid vicious circles of an election, people getting killed, another election – politicians and the military taking turns in power. But it is the people who are killed. I am not going to tell the military to empathise with the people but I am telling politicians that you must be democracy fighters and not electioneers. Otherwise we will not survive.

WHEN DID YOU LAST TALK TO THAKSIN?

After I was released by the coup-makers. He called and asked about my well-being.

THE RED SHIRTS ARE SEEN AS TRYING TO HELP YINGLUCK SHINAWATRA WITH HER COURT CASES.

I met Yingluck and told her that the coup-makers want to pressure her to escape. They don’t really want her to pay the compensation. I told her to keep a peace of mind by going to temples. If she escapes she will not be able to return.

YINGLUCK WILL NOT ESCAPE LIKE HER BROTHER?

Thaksin fleeing the country became a costly lesson. I am not sure, if Thaksin had stayed in the country, what the situation would have been. The amount of compensation they have demanded from her clearly shows that they do not want her in the country. I told her be strong, do not panic. Whatever they want, do the opposite.

DO YOU THINK YINGLUCK WILL BE STRONG ENOUGH, SINCE SHE FACES BOTH CIVIL AND CRIMINAL SUITS?

Whatever will be will be. I did not instigate anyone to commit a wrong and be sent to jail. I believe they want to push her out of the country and do not want to return money.

BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE PREVENTING HER FROM ESCAPING.

In reality, they want her to flee, but it is not easy. Had Thaksin stayed in the country, the country would not have turned out like this.

YOU MEAN HE CANNOT RETURN TO THE COUNTRY?

I believe the chance is dim. Everyone loves Thaksin and wants him to return home.

THE RED SHIRTS WANT TO CAMPAIGN FOR PEOPLE TO REJECT THE CHARTER DRAFT IN A PUBLIC REFERENDUM. BUT IF THE DRAFT IS REJECTED, A GENERAL ELECTION WOULD BE DELAYED.

It is the same way as trying to pressure Yingluck to flee. We are being pressured to have an election without taking into account the rules.

The charter is not democratic. The charter draft says the charter cannot be amended unless more than 40 per cent of political parties agree to an amendment.

If the junta wants to remain in power for life, let them. If they want to return power, they must return full power. If there is going to be a general election, there must be democracy. If the charter is undemocratic, we must vote it down. I am not sure if I will get to do it. I fear others will do it before me, like with the first charter draft by Borwornsak (Uwanno).

THAT HAPPENED BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED IT WOULD BE REJECTED IN A REFERENDUM.

I believe this latest one will also be rejected because of the content. The intention is to allow a non-elected PM.

DO YOU THINK THE JUNTA WANTS THE CHARTER DRAFT TO PASS IN A REFERENDUM?

Everyone wants to stay in power. Power is addictive.

IF YOU CAMPAIGN TO REJECT THE CHARTER, WILL THEY STAY ON IN POWER?

Final-stage patients cannot live long. I am not afraid, because I see that they are in the final stage and a doctor cannot prolong their life. Power is addictive. If they think that by having the charter rejected they can cling on to power, then they do not understand Thai politics.

IS PHEU THAI GOING TO BOYCOTT |ELECTIONS?

I have no idea but I believe the charter draft will be rejected, so there is no use talking about boycotting the election.

WHAT WOULD BE THE POLITICAL DIRECTION IF THAT WERE THE CASE?

I have no idea but I feel they’re writing the charter draft so that it cannot get to be used.

YOU BELIEVE THEY ONLY WANT THE CHARTER NOT TO BE ACCEPTED IN A PLEBISCITE AND DON’T WANT TO PUT PHEU THAI UNDER CONTROL?

If they write such a charter draft, Pheu Thai will just go to the polls to meet death. Even if we win we cannot rule. What is the use?

IF THERE IS AN ELECTION, WHO WOULD BE THE PARTY’S NO 1 (PRIME MINISTER CANDIDATE)?

The party has not planned that.

WHO DO YOU WANT TO BE THE NEXT PM?

Whoever comes through the correct path and has a democratic spirit and does not see people as the enemy. A narrow-minded person cannot solve the country’s problem.